HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes 10-16-2008 WorkshopCITY COUNCIL WITH THE PLANNING & ZONING BOARD WORKSHOP
MINUTES
111 POLK AVENUE
CAPE CANAVERAL, FLORIDA
OCTOBER 16, 2008
5:30 P.M.
CALL TO ORDER:
Mayor Randels called the meeting to Order at 5:30 P.M.
ROLL CALL:
Council Member(s) Present:
Rocky Randels
Robert Hoog
Leo Nicholas
Shannon Roberts
Council Member(s) Absent:
Buzz Petsos
Planning & Zoning Members Present:
Bea McNeely
Lamar Russell
John Fredrickson
Donald Dunn
Harry Pearson
Ron Friedman
John Johanson
Others Present:
Susan Chapman
Bennett Boucher
Anthony Garganese
Todd Morley
Barry Brown
Mayor
Mayor Pro Tern
Council Member
Council Member
Council Member
Chairperson
Vice Chairperson
Board
Member
Board
Member
Board
Member
Board
Member
Board
Member
Recording Secretary
City Manager
City Attorney
Building Official
Planning & Development Director
City Council with the Planning & Zoning Board
co Sign Code Workshop
Meeting Minutes
October 16, 2008
Page 2
DISCUSSION:
1. Sign Code Amendments.
Mayor Randels advised that they would continue reviewing only the
proposed changes to the sign code. He pointed -out that the new sign
code could only be specific to regulate: size, place, time, and type; it
could not designate the use (content) of a sign. He advised that the
last workshop ended on page 11, Section 94 -6, Prohibited Sign
(Features), (j) "Accent lighting'.
Following brief discussion, by consensus, Section 94 -6 (j), "Accent
Lighting" was removed, because it did not relate to signage.
Discussion was held regarding (k), "Walt Mural'. Todd Morley, Building
Official, advised that the group had decided that a wall mural was
okay, but only if it was approved by the Community Appearance Board
(CAB), per Section 22 -36. He noted that any words on a wall mural
would be regulated as wall signage. City Attorney Garganese
suggested that objective regulatory standards and guidelines be
incorporated into Section 22 -36. Discussion followed. Todd Morley
advised that the group previously agreed to allow wall murals, for both
residential and commercial, listed under exemptions, with the
provision that they be approved by the CAB; the exclusion of
alphanumeric characters would indicate a permit was not required for
the portion considered art work; if alphanumeric characters are used
then that area of the alphanumeric display would be measured and
would count as wall signage.
The group agreed with Council member, Shannon Roberts, that the
Community Appearance Board should be added to the list of other
boards on page 3 of the draft ordinance.
The group went back and reviewed (i). Mr. Hoog advised that the
code prohibits neon lighting around signs; however, some newer
buildings are outlined and accented in neon lighting. Following
discussion, the group agreed to require CAB approval and a permit to
install neon lighting on buildings; and prohibit neon lighting on any
type of sign in which a permit is required under this chapter. Note:
This would exempt interior window signs.
City Council with the Planning & Zoning Board
Sign Code Workshop
Meeting Minutes
October 16, 2008
Page 3
Brief discussion was held regarding (q) "Projecting Signs" The group
agreed that projecting signs be prohibited, unless they comply with
the provisions of Section 94 -79. Mr. Morley read the definition of
Projecting Signs. Brief discussion followed.
The group reviewed (m) "Ground signs ". During discussion, the group
agreed that they did not like the look of poles signs, no matter how
high they were.
The group agreed that the definition of a "Pole Sign" should be
changed to read: Ground signs with exposed poles.
Discussion was held regarding: "Pylon Sign" "Monument Sign" and
"Lolli Pop Sign ". The group concluded that Mr. Morley draw
illustrations and create definitions of each type of sign just discussed.
The group agreed that an interpretation section be created for the
purpose of interpreting this code that shows illustrations, photos, and
definitions of all different types of signs that are allowed, as well as,
identify the types of signs that are not allowed; along with an index
that forwards the reader to all the applicable sections pertaining to
that type of sign.
The group discussed (u). Following discussion, City Attorney
Garganese agreed to add language that commemorative brick
pavement areas were exempt from being prohibited.
The group held no discussion regarding letters (v) 'Balloon display ",
and (w) "Discontinued signs ".
Mayor Randels read letter (x) "Electronic Signs, Animated Signs, or
Signs of a flashing, running or revolving nature..... " He pointed-out
that an electronic sign may be approved by the city if it complies with
the provisions of Section 94 -78. At this time, the group had no
comments regarding (x). (Note: Further discussion would be held
during their review of Section 94 -78).
City Council with the Planning & Zoning Board
col Sign Code Workshop
Meeting Minutes
October 16, 2008
Page 4
Mr. Morley read the definition of a "Snipe Sign ". He advised that a
Snipe sign means a small sign of any material, including but not
limited to: paper, cardboard, wood or metal, attached to any object
and having no applications to the premises where located. He
explained that this type of sign would be a yard sale, real estate, or
lost dog sign.
The group held discussion regarding (bb) and (cc), "Signs located or
erected on a parked motor vehicle, inoperable, or unlicensed motor
vehicle..." The group agreed to the wording.
Discussion was held regarding (dd) 'Above roof signs ". Mr. Morley
advised that this type of sign was something they did not want to
allow. He showed the group an example (photo) of an above roof sign
(Roberto's Little Havana Restaurant on A1A in Cocoa Beach). The
owners were allowed the sign because they didn't have room for a
ground sign. He advised that another reason for an above roof sign
would be if there wasn't adequate space for a wall sign. He advised
that he drove around the City and verified that every commercial
property had adequate room for a ground sign; the only reason
someone would want an above roof sign was if they did not have
enough room for a wall sign. The group agreed that above roof signs
were not aesthetically pleasing. Discussion was held regarding roof
signs. They agreed that Yogi's was a good example of a roof sign. He
advised that a roof sign was a sign above the eave; and the code
currently prohibited roof signs. Mr. Morley advised that the City does
not permit roof signs, and there were currently existing roof signs that
were in violation right now. Councilman Hoog advised the Yogi's sign
was installed just a few years ago. Mr. Morley responded that he
would look into that. Discussion was held regarding Burger King's
sign. Mr. Morley advised that the sign was recently approved, and the
sign was deemed legal, because it is located below the parapet. Mr.
Hoog advised that not all businesses had adequate space for a wall
sign or roof sign.
City Council with the Planning & Zoning Board
Sign Code Workshop
Meeting Minutes
October 16, 2008
Page 5
Councilman Hoog used the store at the corner of N. Atlantic and
Washington Avenues (8020 N. Atlantic Avenue) as an example. He
explained that the roof line was only about 7 or 7 1/2 ft. high, so they
could not have a roof sign, because patrons would walk into it; there
was no room for a wall sign, because the walls were all windows; and
there was no place for a ground sign, because the building was located
within the setback. He stated that there were businesses that have
been in the City for 30 years or more that have suffered, because they
can't have a sign. Discussion was held regarding creating a Variance
procedure. Following discussion, the group agreed that a Variance
procedure should be established for a hardship, even though the group
anticipated it would be rare situations that prohibit an applicant from
erecting a sign under the code.
Mayor Randels read the changes to Section 94 -11, Maintenance, notice
to repair. Todd Morley advised that the time line was subjective,
depending on the need. Following review of this section, the group
agreed with the proposed wording.
Mr. Morley gave an overview of the proposed changes in Section 94-
32, "Application For permit; review time limits " Mr. Morley noted that
one of the changes was if the applicant is not the property owner, then
written permission of the property owner would be required. He
clarified that a Power of Attorney would satisfy the requirement.
The group held discussion regarding Section 94 -32 (11) (b). They
questioned the City Attorney if the forty -five (45) days and sixty (60)
days in the code section referred to calendar days or work days. The
City Attorney responded that it was calendar days. He explained that
if the last day fell on a Saturday, Sunday, or legal holiday, the decision
shall be made on the next regular business day. He advised that the
forty -five (45) days and sixty (60) days was a Constitutional issue,
because signs are involved in the First Amendment. Mr. Morley
advised that the Community Appearance Board (CAB) meeting
schedule may effect the time - frame. He suggested that they consider
certain items exempt from going to the CAB.
City Council with the Planning & Zoning Board
Sign Code Workshop
Meeting Minutes
October 16, 2008
Page 6
Mr. Brown commented that if the City has a sign code that was
recently revised and adopted, there would be little reason to take sign
permits to the CAB. He explained that signs will already be approved
for the size, location, number. The only thing the CAB would look at is
the color(s) on the sign face and possibly the shape of the sign; the
maximum size of the sign will already be determined by the code. He
advised that currently, the Building department did not take signs that
did not meet size requirements of the current code to the CAB. He
pointed -out that the submittal fee for a CAB sign application is $35.00,
and the City spends a lot more money than that to hold a CAB
meeting; and pay the city attorney, staff, and recording secretary to
attend the meeting.
Councilwoman Roberts spoke regarding the value of CAB reviewing
signs. Mr. Brown explained that in the past a request for a sign would
go to the CAB before it was determined whether or not it met the
requirements of the code, typically for size and location. Now, the
application is reviewed by staff, before being scheduled for CAB, to
ensure it meets the code. He believed that if the City has a really
good sign code then there is no reason for the request to go to CAB.
He explained that during his review if he found that the shape might
not be something that was acceptable then he could make the decision
that this is one the CAB should look at. Three City Council members
agreed that the CAB should not be eliminated from the process. Mr.
Brown responded that the only aesthetics the CAB looks at is shape(s)
and color(s). Council held a lengthy discussion about the value of the
CAB. They concluded to leave the process the way it is.
The group held discussion regarding process procedures. Mr. Morley
clarified that the proposed changes actually reversed the current
procedure. He explained that with this change the Building Official
reviews the submitted plans first to determine if it met code before
forwarding the application to the CAB. Mr. Brown added that the code
is open to interpretation on this one point on determining which signs
go to the CAB. He respectfully requested that if someone was simply
replacing the plastic sign face, he would not like the request to have to
go to the CAB for approval. Discussion followed.
City Council with the Planning & Zoning Board
Sign Code Workshop
Meeting Minutes
October 16, 2008
Page 7
City Attorney Garganese advised that the code allows the Building
Official to determine if a request has a minor and insignificant
aesthetic impact then it does not have to go to the CAB. Discussion
continued.
Mayor Randels gave an overview of the proposed changes to Section
94 -33, Issuance of Permit, and Section 94 -34, Revocation of Permit.
Following discussion, the group agreed that the word "or" be changed
to "of' in the first sentence of 94 -33 (d); also, the words Construction
Board of Adjustment be capitalized throughout the document; and add
the Construction Board of Adjustment to the beginning of the code
where the other Boards are listed.
Discussion was held regarding the process to appeal a decision made
by the Building Official to the Construction Board of Adjustment. City
Manager, Bennett Boucher, advised that the Construction Board of
Adjustment deals with technical codes, therefore any person aggrieved
by a final decision of the Board may appeal the decision to a court of
competent jurisdiction, not the City Council.
There were no comments or questions on Section 94 -34, Revocation of
Permit, Section 94 -36, Inspection by Administrator, or Section 94 -37,
Notice for Inspections.
Mayor Randels read the proposed changes to Section 94 -35, Fees.
City Manager, Bennett Boucher, explained that the changes in (d) do
not exempt the applicant from the permitting process it only waives
the permit fee.
Mayor Randels reviewed the changes to Section 94 -61, Restrictions on
Placement. Following discussion, the group agreed that the words
"any character of any description of any kind" be removed; also,
remove the words "without permission of the Building Official ".
Mayor Randels read the changes to Section 94 -62, Abandoned and
Hazardous Signs. Following brief discussion, the group agreed that
wording should be added to address unlawful display of an unsafe sign
constituting a hazard to public safety.
City Council with the Planning & Zoning Board
Sign Code Workshop
Meeting Minutes
October 16, 2008
Page 8
The Group reviewed Section 94-64, Criteria and Standards for
Measurement and Placement. Donald Dunn advised that the word
"glass" be removed as a type of lens in (a).
Mayor Randels announced that the next meeting would begin on
Division 2, Types of Signs.
ADJOURNMENT:
Mayor Randels adjourned the meeting at 8:05 P.M.
Susan L.Chapman
Recording Secretary
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