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HomeMy WebLinkAboutTranscript 02-08-2006 Verbatim Transcript Planning& Zoning Board Meeting February 8, 2006 By: Susan L.Chapman, Secretary to the Planning & Zoning Board THIS DOCUMENT WAS PREPARED AT THE EXPRESS DIRECTION OF THE CAPE CANAVERAL CITY ATTORNEY, REFLECTS THE MENTAL IMPRESSIONS, CONCLUSIONS, LITIGATION STRATEGY OR LEGAL THEORIES OF THE CITY ATTORNEY AND WAS PREPARED EXCLUSIVELY FOR THE LITIGATION TRIPPLE J INVESTMENTS LLC V. THE CITY OF CAPE CANAVERAL, WHICH IS CURRENTLY PENDING BEFORE THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE MIDDLE DISTRICT OF FLORIDA, AND THUS IS EXEMPT FROM PUBLIC RECORDS DISCLOSURE PURSUANT TO SECTIONS 119.071(1)(D) AND 768.28(16), FLORIDA STATUTES. Agenda Item: Discussion Re: Changing C-1 Zoning to R-1 Zoning on Lots 2 & 3, Harbor Heights West Subdivision. Bea McNeely: We welcome John Johanson to the board as an alternate member last night. Welcome to the board. John Johanson: Thank you. Bea McNeely: There aren't too many people here tonight but I think I'll go through my little speech. If you're a member of the audience you can speak you just go to the microphone. Speak into the microphone. Give your name and address. You may speak for three minutes if you're a member of the audience. We're asking you not to repeat yourselves or others. Do not interrupt if someone else has the floor. I'm going to try myself this evening not to interrupt if someone else is speaking. We're looking for competent substantial evidence as opposed to opinions. If you have credentials you need to tell us what they are if you have expert testimony to give. I presume that everyone will be telling the truth this evening but we don't have to swear anyone in because these are discussion items. So you're on your best behavior. I'd like to go to staff first and then the board then the petitioner and then the audience. So we'll get started. Discussion this is item number two discussion regarding changing C-1 zoning to R-1 zoning on Lots 2 & 3 Harbor Heights West Subdivision. Todd Peetz. Todd Peetz: At your last planning&zoning board meeting at the end of the meeting we had some discussion that included an agenda item for tonight's meeting. This is what the item is. It's the consideration for discussion Lots 2 and 3 in Harbor Heights as to whether or not we should recommend to city council to rezone and do a small scale comprehensive plan amendment from C-1 to R-1 residential. We don't have a lot of information in here. The boards pretty familiar with this area we discussed it when we considered the special exception at the last meeting. Page 1 of 27 Verbatim Transcript Planning&Zoning Board Meeting February 8, 2006 THIS DOCUMENT WAS PREPARED AT THE EXPRESS DIRECTION OF THE CAPE CANAVERAL CITY ATTORNEY, REFLECTS THE MENTAL IMPRESSIONS, CONCLUSIONS, LITIGATION STRATEGY OR LEGAL THEORIES OF THE CITY ATTORNEY AND WAS PREPARED EXCLUSIVELY FOR THE LITIGATION TRIPPLE J INVESTMENTS LLC V. THE CITY OF CAPE CANAVERAL, WHICH IS CURRENTLY PENDING BEFORE THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE MIDDLE DISTRICT OF FLORIDA, AND THUS IS EXEMPT FROM PUBLIC RECORDS DISCLOSURE PURSUANT TO SECTIONS 119.071(1)(D) AND 768.28(16), FLORIDA STATUTES. Todd Peetz --continued-- We discussed this south parcel special exception which is not included tonight. But we do have a map in your package. We also included an aerial photo which is kind of blurry. Mine is blurry anyway. We also included existing water and sewer information well we included the sewer information. We included the traffic information just for added information just in case because we know what's happening out there we want to make sure a proposed change based on water traffic or sewer and I guess this is really the item we want to discuss is whether or not we want to make a motion to the city council if any. Bea McNeely: Okay. Alright well we hashed this over quit a bit and this is what we came up with so I know there are some Todd Peetz: Well we may want to well the reason we're discussing this is that at the last meeting the recommendation was for denial of the residential special exception because it was incompatible. At least that was the motion from the board for the three units that were being proposed there. In the interim between that meeting and this meeting the property owner has submitted another request for a commercial development there. I have copies of that if you want to see it. So you are fully aware of what's going on a one of the parcels. It's public record so we can show you all so you know that there is a serious commitment to it to looking at the property for development whether it's residential or commercial. Lamar Russell: What's the nature of the request? Todd Peetz: The request that was submitted for a pre-application meeting was a four story office building forty five feet high. It was three levels of office building over parking. Approximately eleven thousand square feet. Ten thousand five hundred square feet of usable office space. That information is on the survey. Page 2 of 27 Verbatim Transcript Planning&Zoning Board Meeting February 8, 2006 THIS DOCUMENT WAS PREPARED AT THE EXPRESS DIRECTION OF THE CAPE CANAVERAL CITY ATTORNEY, REFLECTS THE MENTAL IMPRESSIONS, CONCLUSIONS, LITIGATION STRATEGY OR LEGAL THEORIES OF THE CITY ATTORNEY AND WAS PREPARED EXCLUSIVELY FOR THE LITIGATION TRIPPLE J INVESTMENTS LLC V. THE CITY OF CAPE CANAVERAL, WHICH IS CURRENTLY PENDING BEFORE THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE MIDDLE DISTRICT OF FLORIDA, AND THUS IS EXEMPT FROM PUBLIC RECORDS DISCLOSURE PURSUANT TO SECTIONS 119.071(1)(D) AND 768.28(16), FLORIDA STATUTES. Anthony Garganese: Excuse me for a minute. Mr. Johanson this is going to be your project isn't it? John Johanson: Yes sir it is. Anthony Garganese: Under Florida law you are required to fill out a form declaring a conflict of voting interest. Even though you are an alternate member you need to abstain not only from voting I'd recommend in this case that you abstain from trying to influence the board in any manner regarding the city's action regarding your property. John Johanson: Okay and prior discussion with Mr. Fredrickson he asked me questions I stated I will not discuss this topic tonight and Bea mentioned at the start of the meeting that I would not be voting and I totally Anthony Garganese: Well you are actually required to declare the conflict verbally on the record. John Johanson: Okay. I'm John Johanson I'm a part owner of lot three of the subject property on discussion two Anthony Garganese: The City Clerk's office will be happy to give you a Form Eight I think that's the number of the form for you to fill out declaring that conflict and that will be made part of the minutes. John Johanson: Okay thank you very much. Bea McNeely: Well if Mr. Johanson can't speak about this who is here this evening to present their side of it? Cathy you will be speaking for the project? Cathy Barnes: I just want to see the picture. Page 3 of 27 Transcript Verbatim Planning &Zoning Board Meeting February 8, 2006 THIS DOCUMENT WAS PREPARED AT THE EXPRESS DIRECTION OF THE CAPE CANAVERAL CITY ATTORNEY, REFLECTS THE MENTAL IMPRESSIONS, CONCLUSIONS, LITIGATION STRATEGY OR LEGAL THEORIES OF THE CITY ATTORNEY AND WAS PREPARED EXCLUSIVELY FOR THE LITIGATION TRIPPLE J INVESTMENTS LLC V. THE CITY OF CAPE CANAVERAL, WHICH IS CURRENTLY PENDING BEFORE THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE MIDDLE DISTRICT OF FLORIDA, AND THUS IS EXEMPT FROM PUBLIC RECORDS DISCLOSURE PURSUANT TO SECTIONS 119.071(1)(D) AND 768.28(16), FLORIDA STATUTES. Bea McNeely: So who will be speaking for the project? Anthony Garganese: Well he can give some background but he shouldn't be trying to influence the board members in their decision. Bea McNeely: Okay but he can put on a different hat and answer questions about the project? Anthony Garganese: Sure factual information. John Johanson: Well since I have an active application with the city I will not talk about it. Anthony Garganese: That's entirely your prerogative. It's probably the safest thing to do. Bea McNeely: Alright to recap this particular lot is indeed zoned C-1. Todd Peetz: These two lots we're going to discuss today are C-1 zoning. Bea McNeely: Right the two lots. Lots two and three. And we're discussing whether or not to advise the city council to change the zoning on those two lots with a small comprehensive plan amendment to single family residential. So that's where we left it. And so I guess I'm gonna say this since we turned down the first proposal which was for residential. What we're looking at is whether or not we can go forward with it. Can we make a small comprehensive plan amendment changing the zoning at this time? Anthony Garganese: Well that's an excellent question. When did this plan come in? Todd Peetz: This plan came in basically right after the meeting two weeks ago. Page 4 of 27 Verbatim Transcript Planning&Zoning Board Meeting February 8, 2006 THIS DOCUMENT WAS PREPARED AT THE EXPRESS DIRECTION OF THE CAPE CANAVERAL CITY ATTORNEY, REFLECTS THE MENTAL IMPRESSIONS, CONCLUSIONS, LITIGATION STRATEGY OR LEGAL THEORIES OF THE CITY ATTORNEY AND WAS PREPARED EXCLUSIVELY FOR THE LITIGATION TRIPPLE J INVESTMENTS LLC V. THE CITY OF CAPE CANAVERAL, WHICH IS CURRENTLY PENDING BEFORE THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE MIDDLE DISTRICT OF FLORIDA, AND THUS IS EXEMPT FROM PUBLIC RECORDS DISCLOSURE PURSUANT TO SECTIONS 119.071(1)(D) AND 768.28(16), FLORIDA STATUTES. Lamar Russell: Is there an active application? Todd Peetz: For the pre-application meeting that went? This was a pre-application. The pre-application has not been submitted but the pre-application was submitted. We actually had it today. Staff reviewed it and provided comments to the applicant as to what they would need to do to move forward with a project like this. Lamar Russell: Does the meeting abrogate our discussion tonight? Anthony Garganese: Bennett do you recall if council gave any directive regarding this property? --tape unclear-- Bennett Boucher: Well last night at the city council meeting they discussed the Sea Shell Cay property two lots south of the two lots we're talking about both sides of the entrance to Harbor Drive. Basically council was concerned with the two specimen trees on the property and asked the applicant to have a tree expert evaluate the situation and come back at the next meeting. So that's what they stood on for this project. They really didn't discuss it. It's going to the Board of Adjustment for consideration of the R-2 special exception of this C-1 lot Monday night. Bea McNeely: So what we're looking at is indeed the Board of Adjustment will be making that decision on our last meeting's proposal to not grant the special exception for what was a three unit multifamily. Bennett Boucher: Right. Donald Dunn: Is this an official submission because it not signed and dated? Page 5 of 27 Verbatim Transcript P &Z Meeting February 6, 2006 THIS DOCUMENT WAS PREPARED AT THE EXPRESS DIRECTION OF THE CAPE CANAVERAL CITY ATTORNEY, REFLECTS THE MENTAL IMPRESSIONS, CONCLUSIONS, LITIGATION STRATEGY OR LEGAL THEORIES OF THE CITY ATTORNEY AND WAS PREPARED EXCLUSIVELY FOR THE LITIGATION TRIPPLE J INVESTMENTS LLC V. THE CITY OF CAPE CANAVERAL,WHICH IS CURRENTLY PENDING BEFORE THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE MIDDLE DISTRICT OF FLORIDA, AND THUS IS EXEMPT FROM PUBLIC RECORDS DISCLOSURE PURSUANT TO SECTIONS 119.071(1)(D) AND 768.28(16), FLORIDA STATUTES. Todd Peetz: Basically for the pre-application meeting they don't need to be because it's just an idea of what they can do and can't do. So we basically for them to provide us a fairly detailed drawing the best they can. It doesn't have to be a complete site plan like we normally see with water and sewer elevations and things like that. This document was accepted for the purpose of evaluating for the pre-application meeting. Donald Dunn: It wasn't an official submission signed and dated by the applicant? Todd Peetz: The pre-application process is relatively informal. Donald Dunn: That's why I was wondering has there been submission technically in writing? Todd Peetz: For the pre-application request yes. Anthony Garganese: That raises a whole host of issues. Vesting factors that may be a serious issue for the city should you administratively rezone this property to a zoning designation the does not appear to accommodate what appears to be a foreseeable use by the property owner. Bea McNeely: Yes that seems to be a big question. And what kind of consequences will the city have to deal with if we stick to what we recommended which was to make the comp plan amendment and rezone the two lots to single family. What are the consequences? Anthony Garganese: Of this lot? Bea McNeely: Right now we're talking about changing zoning on lot 1, 2 & 3. Page 6 of 27 Verbatim Transcript Planning&Zoning Board Meeting February 8, 2006 THIS DOCUMENT WAS PREPARED AT THE EXPRESS DIRECTION OF THE CAPE CANAVERAL CITY ATTORNEY, REFLECTS THE MENTAL IMPRESSIONS, CONCLUSIONS, LITIGATION STRATEGY OR LEGAL THEORIES OF THE CITY ATTORNEY AND WAS PREPARED EXCLUSIVELY FOR THE LITIGATION TRIPPLE J INVESTMENTS LLC V. THE CITY OF CAPE CANAVERAL, WHICH IS CURRENTLY PENDING BEFORE THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE MIDDLE DISTRICT OF FLORIDA, AND THUS IS EXEMPT FROM PUBLIC RECORDS DISCLOSURE PURSUANT TO SECTIONS 119.071(1)(D) AND 768.28(16), FLORIDA STATUTES. Harry Pearson: But lot 2 already has a single family home on the lot. Todd Peetz: Correct. Bea McNeely: This is lot 3. Todd Peetz: This is lot 3. Lamar Russell: Which project is Jim Morgan's project on? Is that lot 1? Todd Peetz: Lot 1 is the Sea Shell Cay South. Lamar Russell: Lots 2 and 3 are the lots adjacent? Todd Peetz: Right so there's a single family house here there's a single family house here and that's the vacant piece we're talking about. Lamar Russell: Can you show us that Todd? Who is where? Todd Peetz: Okay Lamar Russell: You've got Sea Shell Cay on lot 1. Todd Peetz: Sea Shell Cay South is right here. These two lots haven't officially been approved yet they're still at city council level and then lot two is here that's one of the lots we're talking about and that's got a single family house on it. Page 7 of 27 Verbatim Transcript Planning&Zoning Board Meeting February 8, 2006 THIS DOCUMENT WAS PREPARED AT THE EXPRESS DIRECTION OF THE CAPE CANAVERAL CITY ATTORNEY, REFLECTS THE MENTAL IMPRESSIONS, CONCLUSIONS, LITIGATION STRATEGY OR LEGAL THEORIES OF THE CITY ATTORNEY AND WAS PREPARED EXCLUSIVELY FOR THE LITIGATION TRIPPLE J INVESTMENTS LLC V. THE CITY OF CAPE CANAVERAL, WHICH IS CURRENTLY PENDING BEFORE THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE MIDDLE DISTRICT OF FLORIDA, AND THUS IS EXEMPT FROM PUBLIC RECORDS DISCLOSURE PURSUANT TO SECTIONS 119.071(1)(D) AND 768.28(16), FLORIDA STATUTES. Lamar Russell: And so this will influence the Board of Adjustment to probably go with the R-2 the lesser of the two evils. You know it's a threat over their heads now. It's a fact and a very influential fact. Well look here's where I'm coming from this whole thing those lots we should have rezoned those a long time ago. And we let that go and go and go. We should have rezoned them to R-1. That's an R-1 neighborhood. And then we let R-2 creep into Lot 1 because there's a multi-family development across the street from it. So that gained certain compatibility. But now it's just creeping on into the neighborhood. It doesn't make a lot of sense to put a multi-family dwelling in the middle of two residential homes in my opinion. I'm not a businessman and I haven't invested in the property. But it just looks like a--pause-- it looks like a raisin in a bowl of grits. It's what an R-2 development is. Then this is the whole plum in a bowl of grits. Its just gonna be a total hose-up. The city ought to fix this. We ought to fix this. We ought to rezone it R-1 and if we need to compensate the individual for whatever adjustment needs to be made we ought to just face up to it. But we ought to fix that. It's an R-1 neighborhood. And that's my input and that's all I've got to say about it. John Fredrickson: Will the Board of Adjustment even be privy to this? Lamar Russell: Of course. It's public record now. Bea McNeely: Some of the questions that were raised with the commercial six was it six or was it four? Four story building there were questions raised about the fire trucks being able to get in. They'd need the aerial ladder fire truck and they weren't sure if the entrance was wide enough. The plan that was talked about had interior corridors and that also has influences on fire protection. If you have outside corridors the fire threat is less. The parking can probably be worked out. And then we've got to the trees on the wooded lot. There might need to be another tree survey. May find we have another--pause--we can't touch tree. So we have a lot of questions. Page 9 of 27 Transcript Verbatim Planning&Zoning Board Meeting February 8, 2006 THIS DOCUMENT WAS PREPARED AT THE EXPRESS DIRECTION OF THE CAPE CANAVERAL CITY ATTORNEY, REFLECTS THE MENTAL IMPRESSIONS, CONCLUSIONS, LITIGATION STRATEGY OR LEGAL THEORIES OF THE CITY ATTORNEY AND WAS PREPARED EXCLUSIVELY FOR THE LITIGATION TRIPPLE J INVESTMENTS LLC V. THE CITY OF CAPE CANAVERAL, WHICH IS CURRENTLY PENDING BEFORE THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE MIDDLE DISTRICT OF FLORIDA, AND THUS IS EXEMPT FROM PUBLIC RECORDS DISCLOSURE PURSUANT TO SECTIONS 119.071(1)(D) AND 768.28(16), FLORIDA STATUTES. Lamar Russell: Single family okay. Todd Peetz: Then we have lot 3 that we're talking about. This one has a special exception request in to the Board of Adjustment and we're also discussing which is vacant and then this is lot 136 which also has a single family house on it. Lamar Russell: Lot 4? Todd Peetz: Well the property appraiser's website actually has it as lot 136. Lamar Russell: But it's the adjacent lot to lot 3. So lot 4 has a single family house? Todd Peetz: Right. Lamar Russell: Okay. Well to review bidding here the Board of Adjustment has a decision to make. If they rule in front of the applicant then the whole thing I guess is moot. I don't know. Then we raise the stakes by looking at rezoning and then the stakes are raised again by him asking to put in commercial. So we put a thread over his head to threaten to rezone then he puts a thread over the Board of Adjustment. That's a threat. The Board of Adjustment now has to consider this in their decision making Monday night. Anthony Garganese: There appears to be a plan B if they don't get a residential special exception. The property is zoned C-1 right? Bea McNeely: Yes. Page 8 of 27 Verbatim Transcript Planning&Zoning Board February 8, 2006 THIS DOCUMENT WAS PREPARED AT THE EXPRESS DIRECTION OF THE CAPE CANAVERAL CITY ATTORNEY, REFLECTS THE MENTAL IMPRESSIONS, CONCLUSIONS, LITIGATION STRATEGY OR LEGAL THEORIES OF THE CITY ATTORNEY AND WAS PREPARED EXCLUSIVELY FOR THE LITIGATION TRIPPLE J INVESTMENTS LLC V. THE CITY OF CAPE CANAVERAL, WHICH IS CURRENTLY PENDING BEFORE THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE MIDDLE DISTRICT OF FLORIDA, AND THUS IS EXEMPT FROM PUBLIC RECORDS DISCLOSURE PURSUANT TO SECTIONS 119.071(1)(D) AND 768.28(16), FLORIDA STATUTES. Bea McNeely-- continued-- The route the commercial four story building might take. So if it was just a proposal that's been officially proposed because it's been to the pre- application. So it's in the pipeline. Harry Pearson: Well then the fire department in the city would look at this and answer the question. Todd Peetz: Right the fire department was at the meeting today and talked about some of those issues. They want them to take a look at the entrance to Harbor Heights they're worried that they won't make that turning radius. There's a certain width they are looking for. And Harbor Heights has that split entrance. They were kind of concerned because they need the ladder truck to go up 45 feet services. Currently they don't need the big ladder truck in Harbor Heights because they can use the other truck because everything in there is less than 25 feet. But they need the aerial ladder to achieve that so that's why they want to take an additional look at it. We did talk about for example how the fire truck could get in there and turn around. And the fire department did say that they had the room to make that turning movement on the site. Which was an important discussion in today's meeting. The meeting today is still somewhat rough. I mean this is still a rough plan. I mean there's still a lot of information that is still missing. The landscaping the tree survey we asked for a traffic study. We asked for a number of different things that just aren't known yet. It's something they have to go back and evaluate and bring back. Harry Pearson: When that is complete would that appear on our agenda? Todd Peetz: When they get to a certain point when it's substantially complete and meets the city code then it would come back the board. Harry Pearson: This is not changing zoning it would remain as C-1. Page 10 of 27 Verbatim Transcript Planning& Zoning Board Meeting February 8, 2006 THIS DOCUMENT WAS PREPARED AT THE EXPRESS DIRECTION OF THE CAPE CANAVERAL CITY ATTORNEY, REFLECTS THE MENTAL IMPRESSIONS, CONCLUSIONS, LITIGATION STRATEGY OR LEGAL THEORIES OF THE CITY ATTORNEY AND WAS PREPARED EXCLUSIVELY FOR THE LITIGATION TRIPPLE J INVESTMENTS LLC V. THE CITY OF CAPE CANAVERAL, WHICH IS CURRENTLY PENDING BEFORE THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE MIDDLE DISTRICT OF FLORIDA, AND THUS IS EXEMPT FROM PUBLIC RECORDS DISCLOSURE PURSUANT TO SECTIONS 119.071(1)(D) AND 768.28(16), FLORIDA STATUTES. Todd Peetz: Right this is what the owner of the property is saying that we can do this right now this use on the property without a special exception. It's a permitted use currently on the property. And basically this process they went through was to verify how realistic it is to build a multi-story building on the site. Lamar Russell: It's a brilliant ploy. I congratulate the applicant on the ploy. But a forty five foot building in a residential R-1 neighborhood that is totally incompatible regardless of how it's presently zoned and our comprehensive plan strongly encourages single family dwelling which we have very little of in the town anymore. But putting 45 foot building in an R-1 neighborhood is it's something that we really really we need to bring that to rights. Whatever it takes. We just need to finish out that neighborhood as R-1 and move on. But we shall see. Donald Dunn: Todd in your discussions with the applicant or any of his representatives did you get the impression they were going to sell the building or rent the building as offices? Todd Peetz: I believe they're going to rent the building to an attorney's firm and a doctor's office was already looking. They were going to occupy some of the space so they can run their own offices is what the discussion included. Donald Dunn: To Stottler Stagg. Todd Peetz: They didn't mention an engineering firm but something like that could locate there. Bea McNeely: Okay John. Page 11 of 27 Verbatim Transcript Planning&Zoning Board Meeting February 8, 2006 THIS DOCUMENT WAS PREPARED AT THE EXPRESS DIRECTION OF THE CAPE CANAVERAL CITY ATTORNEY, REFLECTS THE MENTAL IMPRESSIONS, CONCLUSIONS, LITIGATION STRATEGY OR LEGAL THEORIES OF THE CITY ATTORNEY AND WAS PREPARED EXCLUSIVELY FOR THE LITIGATION TRIPPLE J INVESTMENTS LLC V. THE CITY OF CAPE CANAVERAL, WHICH IS CURRENTLY PENDING BEFORE THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE MIDDLE DISTRICT OF FLORIDA, AND THUS IS EXEMPT FROM PUBLIC RECORDS DISCLOSURE PURSUANT TO SECTIONS 119.071(1)(D) AND 768.28(16), FLORIDA STATUTES. John Fredrickson: It seems like the applicant has Plan B in his back pocket. I want to ask about the Board of Adjustment that if they reject our recommendation is C-1 suddenly going to be rezoned. We said no they said yes is that where it ends? Bea McNeely: It won't be rezoned. John Fredrickson: Does the city council have anything to say? Any response to what the Board of Adjustment does? They have more clout than we have have they not? Bea McNeely: No. Anthony Garganese: The Board of Adjustment's decision would be final. They're requesting a residential land use in the C-1 zoning district John Fredrickson: So the buck stops there. Anthony Garganese: All the uses in C-1 would still be allowed. Unless we rezone the property to residential use. It appears tonight with the information we were provided that the property owner is ready to move forward with commercial use if the don't get a residential special exception. Lamar Russell: If the Board of Adjustment granted the R-2 special exception as far as I am personally concerned it ends there with me. I'm not gonna fall on my sword. But truth of the matter is that area should be all R-1 to make it all compatible. If the Board of Adjustment makes their decision with me it ends there. But if they make the decision to turn down the application then we come back to where we are tonight. What are we gonna do? John Fredrickson: Any action tonight isn't it premature? Page 12 of 27 Verbatim Transcript Planning& Zoning Board Meeting February 8, 2006 THIS DOCUMENT WAS PREPARED AT THE EXPRESS DIRECTION OF THE CAPE CANAVERAL CITY ATTORNEY, REFLECTS THE MENTAL IMPRESSIONS, CONCLUSIONS, LITIGATION STRATEGY OR LEGAL THEORIES OF THE CITY ATTORNEY AND WAS PREPARED EXCLUSIVELY FOR THE LITIGATION TRIPPLE J INVESTMENTS LLC V. THE CITY OF CAPE CANAVERAL, WHICH IS CURRENTLY PENDING BEFORE THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE MIDDLE DISTRICT OF FLORIDA, AND THUS IS EXEMPT FROM PUBLIC RECORDS DISCLOSURE PURSUANT TO SECTIONS 119.071(1)(D) AND 768.28(16), FLORIDA STATUTES. Lamar Russell: That's what I'm asking. I'm worried that the applicant for the commercial use could cloud whatever we decide to do tonight. I'm trying to create a conversation. When this night's over I'm going to be standing I'm gonna drive home and I'm gonna get a good night's sleep. But I'm just trying to create a conversation tonight to figure out what we ought to do. Know can you imagine a 45 foot business application in the middle of head of Harbor Heights? To me that's incomprehensible. We should have fixed this before it happened. But the horse is already out of the barn. So now we still ought to fix it. And I was reading about it even though I wrote about the subject I still go back and read about the subject and see what other people are saying reminding myself that zoning is suppose to secure a public purpose is suppose to be reasonable It's not suppose to be confiscatory it has to be consistent. Well consistent means keep it fair and try to keep it residential. It has to be reasonable and this man has a significant investment and I recognize that fully but the public purpose is to keep it a residential neighborhood as it's always been. Since the inception of the city. And if we don't do that we're liable to have a 45 ft. building but people who don't live in Harbor Heights aren't gonna worry too much about it. But there's about 200 family households that are gonna worry about it. And they're gonna come tell us about it. But it can't be confiscatory so if we were to rezone I have a notion we'd have to have the city attorney sit down with the applicant's attorney and figure out what the compensation is that's just common sense. I'm not trying to prejudice the outcome probably the way it's gonna work. Fourteenth amendment says that you can't take a persons property without compensating them for it. So what shall we do that's a reasonable thing to do? Right now we've got a hearing Monday night it well may be that we stand back and keep our powder dry and not make any recommendations until the Board of Adjustment has made its decision. Once that decision is made then we'll know what we're dealing with. But I just wanted to put the facts on the table tonight and get people thinking because this is going to be something a significant part of town is going to be thinking about. John Fredrickson: We can't ask the applicant anything tonight? Page 13 of 27 Verbatim Transcript Planning&Zoning Board Meeting February 8, 2009 THIS DOCUMENT WAS PREPARED AT THE EXPRESS DIRECTION OF THE CAPE CANAVERAL CITY ATTORNEY, REFLECTS THE MENTAL IMPRESSIONS, CONCLUSIONS, LITIGATION STRATEGY OR LEGAL THEORIES OF THE CITY ATTORNEY AND WAS PREPARED EXCLUSIVELY FOR THE LITIGATION TRIPPLE J INVESTMENTS LLC V. THE CITY OF CAPE CANAVERAL, WHICH IS CURRENTLY PENDING BEFORE THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE MIDDLE DISTRICT OF FLORIDA, AND THUS IS EXEMPT FROM PUBLIC RECORDS DISCLOSURE PURSUANT TO SECTIONS 119.071(1)(D) AND 768.28(16), FLORIDA STATUTES. Bea McNeely: Is there anyone here to speak about it? Anthony Garganese: He's already indicated that he's not going to speak about it. Donald Dunn: It troubled by this document from the city its in fact saying he's got two applications and one for a three building residence and also he's got some application in for some kind of commercial building 45 feet high. Is that right? We've got one application and one that's not official? Todd Peetz: This is what we call a pre-application which is the action prior to the applicant making his official submittal. So technically this is still a pre-application meeting that we had with pre-application comments. The application has not been officially submitted. The application for a site plan. But this is the first step that's in the code it says it encourages you to have a pre-application meeting before you submit your site plan so that's part of the code so they've exercised there responsibility before you do a site plan. I've seen drawings even less detailed than this. The quality of the drawings and things like this virtually like someone went home and used his computer and drew something the best he could with one of those drawing programs and not really be to scale and try to have us help them out with it. Donald Dunn: It's more like one and a half. Todd Peetz: Well technically it was discussed that if there special exception is approved by the Board of Adjustment they're gonna drop this. Page 14 of 27 Verbatim Transcript Planning& Zoning Board Meeting February 8, 2006 THIS DOCUMENT WAS PREPARED AT THE EXPRESS DIRECTION OF THE CAPE CANAVERAL CITY ATTORNEY, REFLECTS THE MENTAL IMPRESSIONS, CONCLUSIONS, LITIGATION STRATEGY OR LEGAL THEORIES OF THE CITY ATTORNEY AND WAS PREPARED EXCLUSIVELY FOR THE LITIGATION TRIPPLE J INVESTMENTS LLC V. THE CITY OF CAPE CANAVERAL, WHICH IS CURRENTLY PENDING BEFORE THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE MIDDLE DISTRICT OF FLORIDA, AND THUS IS EXEMPT FROM PUBLIC RECORDS DISCLOSURE PURSUANT TO SECTIONS 119.071(1)(D) AND 768.28(16), FLORIDA STATUTES. Lamar Russell: I prefer to think about it as two strategies. The applicant is perfectly entitled to both strategies. Nothings been broken no regulations have been broken here. The two strategies are put in play. They're perfectly legal and the applicant is entitled. This is just the first time we've seen it. Okay so I'm not troubled by that I'm just troubled by the fact that we're liable to have an inconsistent neighborhood. And we may wind up with it. If we do we'll continue to live and move on. But I prefer not to see that outcome. Harry Pearson: Don't we already have that Lamar? I have it here I'm leaking at one and this E-16. That's Jim Morgan's and he was in through here with a special exception ohh a month or so ago. And that is a special exception for R-2? They're going to be putting up townhouses. Lamar Russell: It's a special exception for residential in a C-1 zone which happens to be across the street from another multifamily development. If you enter Harbor Heights on the right side there's already an existing multi-family unit. Okay so that crept in as compatible to the remnants of Ocean Woods and all those other developments that crept northward. So the crept in. Then Morgan came in with his proposal. Then you sort of get a compatibility argument because one is across the street. And then it keeps marching on encroaching into an R-1 neighborhood and you ask yourself where its stop? And maybe the outcome is that we get a multi-family residential outcome from the Board of Adjustment and that ends it. It's just not desirable. Harry Pearson: To me it's a matter of looking at the geography here. You know we have lot 1 and A-6 which is gonna be townhouses compatible across the street. Okay but it's gonna be townhouses. Then lot 3 over there wants to be townhouses. The odd one out is really Lot 2. Which sets in the middle of the possible at least townhouses and it's a single family. Page 15 of 27 Verbatim Transcript Planning&Zoning Board Meeting February 8, 2006 THIS DOCUMENT WAS PREPARED AT THE EXPRESS DIRECTION OF THE CAPE CANAVERAL CITY ATTORNEY, REFLECTS THE MENTAL IMPRESSIONS, CONCLUSIONS, LITIGATION STRATEGY OR LEGAL THEORIES OF THE CITY ATTORNEY AND WAS PREPARED EXCLUSIVELY FOR THE LITIGATION TRIPPLE J INVESTMENTS LLC V. THE CITY OF CAPE CANAVERAL, WHICH IS CURRENTLY PENDING BEFORE THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE MIDDLE DISTRICT OF FLORIDA, AND THUS IS EXEMPT FROM PUBLIC RECORDS DISCLOSURE PURSUANT TO SECTIONS 119.071(1)(D)AND 768.28(16), FLORIDA STATUTES. Lamar Russell: Lot 3 is odd then Lot 4 I call it lot 4 it's adjacent Lot 136 is also single family so. Harry Pearson: Well that's zoned residential isn't it? Lamar Russell: Yes that's residential. Harry Pearson: From 126 to 129 on and on across the street 71 to 269 and on and on and so on. I'm just looking at this little corner here which right know has a little bitsy piece of R-1 exemption there in the middle what's still a C-1 and on the other side is townhouses. I'm not favoring them it's just what we see here when we look at the geography. Lamar Russell: Well Lot 1 and A-16 are the where the Morgan Sea Shell Cay will go in. Harry Pearson: And that's already moved on. Lamar Russell: That's already on the books. Then we've got single family on two. Possibility of multi-family or commercial on one. And then single family all the way around. Harry Pearson: I don't know why it's got a blocked up one on it. Todd Peetz: It's really Lot 3. Todd Peetz: The blocked up one came from the property appraiser's office when you point and click on that it automatically assigns the one you point on as Lot 1. Page 16 of 27 Verbatim Transcript Planning&Zoning Board Meeting February 8, 2009 THIS DOCUMENT WAS PREPARED AT THE EXPRESS DIRECTION OF THE CAPE CANAVERAL CITY ATTORNEY, REFLECTS THE MENTAL IMPRESSIONS, CONCLUSIONS, LITIGATION STRATEGY OR LEGAL THEORIES OF THE CITY ATTORNEY AND WAS PREPARED EXCLUSIVELY FOR THE LITIGATION TRIPPLE J INVESTMENTS LLC V. THE CITY OF CAPE CANAVERAL, WHICH IS CURRENTLY PENDING BEFORE THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE MIDDLE DISTRICT OF FLORIDA, AND THUS IS EXEMPT FROM PUBLIC RECORDS DISCLOSURE PURSUANT TO SECTIONS 119.071(1)(D) AND 768.28(16), FLORIDA STATUTES. Harry Pearson: We know its 3 and we know that it's Lot 1 that we are talking about that's on the agenda tonight. Donald Dunn: How does the traffic water sewage and all that? Todd Peetz: Okay well that's one thing we mentioned they're gonna have provide the traffic study and they're gonna have to provide the landscape and survey of the trees. Donald Dunn: It's traffic relative to Coral? Todd Peetz: Well it's gonna be traffic related to North Atlantic. Donald Dunn: Its ingress and egress is going to be on Coral as well as other places. Sanitary sewer and other things garbage trucks fire trucks. Todd Peetz: The commercial building will have more trips than the three townhouse units would have. What that does to the intersection of Harbor Heights may come out maybe the result of the traffic study may result in the need for an excel lane there north and south. It's hard to tell at this point without the traffic study. Harry Pearson: Landscaping if I'm understanding this the landscaping would be the total removal of all the vegetation. Page 17 of 27 Verbatim Transcript Planning&Zoning Board Meeting February 8, 2006 THIS DOCUMENT WAS PREPARED AT THE EXPRESS DIRECTION OF THE CAPE CANAVERAL CITY ATTORNEY, REFLECTS THE MENTAL IMPRESSIONS, CONCLUSIONS, LITIGATION STRATEGY OR LEGAL THEORIES OF THE CITY ATTORNEY AND WAS PREPARED EXCLUSIVELY FOR THE LITIGATION TRIPPLE J INVESTMENTS LLC V. THE CITY OF CAPE CANAVERAL, WHICH IS CURRENTLY PENDING BEFORE THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE MIDDLE DISTRICT OF FLORIDA, AND THUS IS EXEMPT FROM PUBLIC RECORDS DISCLOSURE PURSUANT TO SECTIONS 119.071(1)(D) AND 768.28(16), FLORIDA STATUTES. Todd Peetz: Yah they're talking about underground filtration drainage which would be under the building or under the parking area so they're basically the existing trees that are already there in that area unless it's along the property line there probably won't be any left. They will be required to buffer the R-1 piece and the applicant already said that they would be willing to provide a buffer on the south side to as feasible depending on the drainage and all that stuff turns out to be. Harry Pearson: A buffer of vegetation? Todd Peetz: Yes a landscape buffer. They're gonna be require to do one on the north on the north east side. Harry Pearson: Just so we understand. Donald Dunn: Is that the 5 ft. utility drainage that goes around the entire property? Todd Peetz: Right. Donald Dunn: That would be landscaping or buffering? Todd Peetz: Right. They're gonna be required to do it on the north north east side and they said they would do their best to landscape on the south side as appropriate. Bea McNeely: Some of the things that we're talking about seem to be tied to the calendar. If we tonight make our wishes known this date that we still want to see it rezoned R-1 Lots 2 and 3 then that goes on the calendar as a recommendation from us from today. And so maybe down the line when people start challenging these things maybe that would be an important date. Maybe that could be something we could look back on and say well on this date this is what we decided of what we preferred. Page 18 of 27 Verbatim Transcript Planning& Zoning Board Meeting February 8, 2006 THIS DOCUMENT WAS PREPARED AT THE EXPRESS DIRECTION OF THE CAPE CANAVERAL CITY ATTORNEY, REFLECTS THE MENTAL IMPRESSIONS, CONCLUSIONS, LITIGATION STRATEGY OR LEGAL THEORIES OF THE CITY ATTORNEY AND WAS PREPARED EXCLUSIVELY FOR THE LITIGATION TRIPPLE J INVESTMENTS LLC V. THE CITY OF CAPE CANAVERAL, WHICH IS CURRENTLY PENDING BEFORE THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE MIDDLE DISTRICT OF FLORIDA, AND THUS IS EXEMPT FROM PUBLIC RECORDS DISCLOSURE PURSUANT TO SECTIONS 119.071(1)(D) AND 768.28(16), FLORIDA STATUTES. Lamar Russell: Well before we do that we probably ought to go and look at the code and see what the zoning amendment procedure is. Making a recommendation may just making a recommendation to the council these are our wishes may or may not carry any weight I don't know but we probably ought to look I didn't look at it tonight but we probably ought to look at the code and see what the procedure is. I think the first step when you do a zoning amendment and that's what we're talking about first step is to well the first thing we've got to do is change the comprehensive plan small scale use and then you go into the P &Z board who shall make study and recommendations to the city council for zoning amendment. You might try it won't be in C-1 if you're talking about the zoning amendment there's a separate chapter on zoning amendment. Anthony Garganese: I asked them what the future zoning designation was. He said C-1 so a small scale comprehensive plan amendment would need to be done in conjunction with the zoning as a result you'd have public notice requirement. When you're acting in the capacity of the LPA you need to have public notice of the administrative comp plan change and it has to be published in the newspaper and then you have your public hearing on the comp plan change. Lamar Russell: Do we need the city council's approval to do that process? Anthony Garganese: That I'm not sure. You are an advisory board. I'd have to go look at the code to see if you can initiate if you've been authorized to initiate a comprehensive plan change. Page 19 of 27 Verbatim Transcript Planning&Zoning Board Meeting February 8, 2006 Page 20 THIS DOCUMENT WAS PREPARED AT THE EXPRESS DIRECTION OF THE CAPE CANAVERAL CITY ATTORNEY, REFLECTS THE MENTAL IMPRESSIONS, CONCLUSIONS, LITIGATION STRATEGY OR LEGAL THEORIES OF THE CITY ATTORNEY AND WAS PREPARED EXCLUSIVELY FOR THE LITIGATION TRIPPLE J INVESTMENTS LLC V. THE CITY OF CAPE CANAVERAL, WHICH IS CURRENTLY PENDING BEFORE THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE MIDDLE DISTRICT OF FLORIDA, AND THUS IS EXEMPT FROM PUBLIC RECORDS DISCLOSURE PURSUANT TO SECTIONS 119.071(1)(D) AND 768.28(16), FLORIDA STATUTES. Lamar Russell: Well in the zoning ordinance I know we don't need to be authorized to bring forth a zoning amendment. We can make study and recommendation and recommend to the council and no authorization is needed. In fact there are four different parties that can bring forward a zoning amendment. The council the P &Z board and individual applicant and there's one more I can't remember public at large or some such. Anthony Garganese: Department or agency of the city. Lamar Russell: Right so you can do that. And we can also make study and recommendation of a comp plan change. So we can do that regardless of the council's wishes. Of course we get to weigh in finally and heavily in the end. So if we were to pass a recommendation tonight there wish is to rezone I don't think it would do anything accept that here's what we'd like to do. But what really gives if weight is to start the official process. Then you don't have to say anything. It takes a life of its own. But if you want to place a recommendation and a motion in front of the council that's okay too. I just thought I'd throw those thoughts out. Bea McNeely: Well since this is a discussion item can we move forward and start the rezoning? Anthony Garganese: The code says you can initiate a rezoning of land. The code says you also have to initiate a small comp plan amendment in this case. It's the function of the land planning agency under the statutes to make recommendations of changes in regards to the comp plan and so you have that right to go ahead and initiate it. It's going to require the expenditure of funds for public advertisement. So that will end up on the city manager's desk for consideration. Bea McNeely: We're not meeting tonight as the local planning agency. Page 20 of 27 Verbatim Transcript Planning&Zoning Board Meeting February 8, 2006 THIS DOCUMENT WAS PREPARED AT THE EXPRESS DIRECTION OF THE CAPE CANAVERAL CITY ATTORNEY, REFLECTS THE MENTAL IMPRESSIONS, CONCLUSIONS, LITIGATION STRATEGY OR LEGAL THEORIES OF THE CITY ATTORNEY AND WAS PREPARED EXCLUSIVELY FOR THE LITIGATION TRIPPLE J INVESTMENTS LLC V. THE CITY OF CAPE CANAVERAL, WHICH IS CURRENTLY PENDING BEFORE THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE MIDDLE DISTRICT OF FLORIDA, AND THUS IS EXEMPT FROM PUBLIC RECORDS DISCLOSURE PURSUANT TO SECTIONS 119.071(1)(D) AND 768.28(16), FLORIDA STATUTES. Anthony Garganese: You can techniquely start that process. But you'd have to have that advertisement in order to consider making a recommendation to the council. Lamar Russell: Probably the sensible thing to do is await the outcome of the Board of Adjustment decision. You know we've had our discussion tonight I think we had a good discussion about all or most of the issues. I can't think of any other issues. Anthony can you think of any issue that we've left unaddressed surrounding this matter? Maybe you want to give it some thought. Anthony Garganese: Nothings coming to me off the top of my head. You've already reviewed a site plan for this property. You've reviewed a special exception request. You've discussed the zoning issue. You've talked a little about investment expectations. Generally just the expectation you have under a zoning district destination is not enough to be a vested right. In this case it appears that the property owner has put the wheels in motion for two alternative plans as they've gone ahead and spent some money on reliance of what's allowed in that zoning designation with respect to the commercial use and his preparation of plans for the special exception use is speculative because the special exception have to meet the criteria and get board approval. There's a lot of issues floating around. Lamar Russell: Last night the council talked about and some of us made input that after council settles on which direction it wants to go with respect to the residential use in C-1 zoning and that moratorium and all those issues. If they were to remove that special exception from C-1 the move was put on the table the P &Z board would have to come along behind that and probably do some clean up small scale rezoning in places just to clean up inconsistencies or relieve some of those expectations it's gonna be a hard job and we don't have those nailed down or addressed. Page 21 of 27 Verbatim Transcript Planning&Zoning Board Meeting February 8, 2006 THIS DOCUMENT WAS PREPARED AT THE EXPRESS DIRECTION OF THE CAPE CANAVERAL CITY ATTORNEY, REFLECTS THE MENTAL IMPRESSIONS, CONCLUSIONS, LITIGATION STRATEGY OR LEGAL THEORIES OF THE CITY ATTORNEY AND WAS PREPARED EXCLUSIVELY FOR THE LITIGATION TRIPPLE J INVESTMENTS LLC V. THE CITY OF CAPE CANAVERAL, WHICH IS CURRENTLY PENDING BEFORE THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE MIDDLE DISTRICT OF FLORIDA, AND THUS IS EXEMPT FROM PUBLIC RECORDS DISCLOSURE PURSUANT TO SECTIONS 119.071(1)(D) AND 768.28(16), FLORIDA STATUTES. Lamar Russell - continued- That problem goes away if the council refuses or elects not to take out the residential special exception. I think we ought to let the Board of Adjustment make its decision and we come back at the next meeting and decide what we want to do and I would recommend we just hold that number two agenda item. Just simply stick it on the next meeting agenda so we do talk about it so we know what the Board of Adjustment has decided. Bea McNeely: Okay Lamar Russell: But that's just me talking. I'm not the only one here. I'd like to hear some. Bea McNeely: Is there anyone in the audience that would like to speak on this? ---Silence--- Bea McNeely: Well I'm gonna move that we end the discussion of item number two. Lamar Russell: I agree. Bea McNeely: We have a motion and a second to end discussion. Call the roll. Susan Chapman: Donald Dunn Donald Dunn: For Susan Chapman: John Fredrickson John Fredrickson: For Page 22 of 27 Verbatim Transcript Planning&Zoning Board Meeting February 8, 2006 THIS DOCUMENT WAS PREPARED AT THE EXPRESS DIRECTION OF THE CAPE CANAVERAL CITY ATTORNEY, REFLECTS THE MENTAL IMPRESSIONS, CONCLUSIONS, LITIGATION STRATEGY OR LEGAL THEORIES OF THE CITY ATTORNEY AND WAS PREPARED EXCLUSIVELY FOR THE LITIGATION TRIPPLE J INVESTMENTS LLC V. THE CITY OF CAPE CANAVERAL, WHICH IS CURRENTLY PENDING BEFORE THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE MIDDLE DISTRICT OF FLORIDA, AND THUS IS EXEMPT FROM PUBLIC RECORDS DISCLOSURE PURSUANT TO SECTIONS 119.071(1)(D) AND 768.28(16), FLORIDA STATUTES. Susan Chapman: Bea McNeely Bea McNeely: For Susan Chapman: Harry Pearson Harry Pearson: For Susan Chapman: Lamar Russell Lamar Russell: For Bea McNeely: All right the discussion has ended and it was a very good discussion. This brings us to agenda item number three. The following is a verbatim of portions of Agenda Item #3 (which was a discussion regarding residential use in the C-1 zoning district) when the Sea Shell Cay North property was mentioned or discussed. Todd Peetz: .... In the event that special exceptions do go away in certain parts of the city what are we going to do to resolve some of the issues that are out there i.e. mentioned already tonight for example if they're developed as residential maybe administratively rezone that to residential. We put this agenda item on here kind of quick I just threw those ideas at you kind of quick the idea is within the next sixty days the council's gonna be making a harder decision and they're gonna need some sort of alternative solution to resolve some of the pre-existing or current situations we have in this city. The things that I have for you now that I didn't bring to the meeting was that we were able to take the existing land use map and break it down into smaller segments and actually blow them up Page 23 of 27 Verbatim Transcript Planning&Zoning Board Meeting February 8, 2006 THIS DOCUMENT WAS PREPARED AT THE EXPRESS DIRECTION OF THE CAPE CANAVERAL CITY ATTORNEY, REFLECTS THE MENTAL IMPRESSIONS, CONCLUSIONS, LITIGATION STRATEGY OR LEGAL THEORIES OF THE CITY ATTORNEY AND WAS PREPARED EXCLUSIVELY FOR THE LITIGATION TRIPPLE J INVESTMENTS LLC V. THE CITY OF CAPE CANAVERAL, WHICH IS CURRENTLY PENDING BEFORE THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE MIDDLE DISTRICT OF FLORIDA, AND THUS IS EXEMPT FROM PUBLIC RECORDS DISCLOSURE PURSUANT TO SECTIONS 119.071(1)(D) AND 768.28(16), FLORIDA STATUTES. Todd Peetz-- continued-- so you can see the existing uses how they are developed on the site currently so when we start looking at some of these other areas we can see the problems coming out at us like we saw at the January 31st meeting some of the residents some of the property owners I should say had stated that a commercial use in between two residential uses if they don't have the opportunity you know to use residential use they're gonna be stuck with the commercial use that may not be compatible between these two residential uses. Lamar Russell: I liked Todd's points about going back and looking at the residential special exceptions in C-1 and if the council elects to keep it then maybe we should go back and look at maximum units I really like that idea. We really ought to have a good debate and discussion on compatibility requirements. Right now compatibility if just compatibility we sort of go by the dictionary definition but we really don't have any criteria written. We ought to have that debate some night and tighten up the compatibility requirements. We need to do that even for other needs any special exception or variance we need those requirements tightened up. We ought to go look at that minimum buffer area buffering areas between residential and commercial I like that idea and I wish the council would remove that special exception we wouldn't be in the quandary that we're in tonight. Donald Dunn: My concern is the changing of the commercial to residential that thought was the main subject not the kind of business and I'm in favor of the moratorium but I'm in favor of eliminating the special exception period completely. I think the other part of it of the multi-use I don't see that as part of the discussion because that's another subject. That's something else you'd need to do with the comp plan and I don't see how that's related to whether or not you have from C to R. I'm sticking to the C to R issue. I think it's very straight forward. The City feels like we have enough residential on A 1 A then we should remove the special exception to change from C to residential. And I believe we're at that point. Page 24 of 27 Planning& Zoning Board Meeting Verbatim Transcript February 8, 2006 THIS DOCUMENT WAS PREPARED AT THE EXPRESS DIRECTION OF THE CAPE CANAVERAL CITY ATTORNEY, REFLECTS THE MENTAL IMPRESSIONS, CONCLUSIONS, LITIGATION STRATEGY OR LEGAL THEORIES OF THE CITY ATTORNEY AND WAS PREPARED EXCLUSIVELY FOR THE LITIGATION TRIPPLE J INVESTMENTS LLC V. THE CITY OF CAPE CANAVERAL, WHICH IS CURRENTLY PENDING BEFORE THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE MIDDLE DISTRICT OF FLORIDA, AND THUS IS EXEMPT FROM PUBLIC RECORDS DISCLOSURE PURSUANT TO SECTIONS 119.071(1)(D) AND 768.28(16), FLORIDA STATUTES. John Johanson: I disagree with eliminating all special exceptions on AlA. I think it needs to be defined though. (Discussion continued regarding the agenda item.) Catherine Barnes: That was my concern once these big developers come in and find these little pockets of commercial. Cause there's a lot of sleepers out there they are going to make the right dollar offer to the residential. So we have to do some housekeeping And the other thing is that we meet Monday night on this other item and I don't know if you can get on short short notice I mean there are 200 families in Harbor Heights can anyone get there opinion before Monday night's meeting? Todd Peetz: Well I think you can have a copy of the minutes for your packet and I think they'll be attending that meeting. We had a pretty good crowd. Catherine Barnes: Pretty good show? Okay so we'll hear probably but I'd like to hear from all the residents not just from the squeaky wheels. Leo Nicholas: They've spread the word around there. Catherine Barnes: So we will get a well balance. Leo Nicholas: Probably. Catherine Barnes: Okay because I don't think I'll be able to make a decision so they'll have to tape it. Bea McNeely: Okay we're talking cross purposes here Page 25 of 27 Planning&Zoning Board Meeting Verbatim Transcript February 8, 2006 THIS DOCUMENT WAS PREPARED AT THE EXPRESS DIRECTION OF THE CAPE CANAVERAL CITY ATTORNEY, REFLECTS THE MENTAL IMPRESSIONS, CONCLUSIONS, LITIGATION STRATEGY OR LEGAL THEORIES OF THE CITY ATTORNEY AND WAS PREPARED EXCLUSIVELY FOR THE LITIGATION TRIPPLE J INVESTMENTS LLC V. THE CITY OF CAPE CANAVERAL, WHICH IS CURRENTLY PENDING BEFORE THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE MIDDLE DISTRICT OF FLORIDA, AND THUS IS EXEMPT FROM PUBLIC RECORDS DISCLOSURE PURSUANT TO SECTIONS 119.071(1)(D) AND 768.28(16), FLORIDA STATUTES. Catherine Barnes: And what I need to ask so what is the time period for rezoning? Are you talking months? A city can rezone or an individual can go before the state and rezone? Bea McNeely: To rezone you have to change the comprehensive plan. Catherine Barnes: Does it take the city just as long as a private? Todd Peetz: Yes it would because they both have to be reviewed by the state. Catherine Barnes: Okay. Todd Peetz: They both have to be reviewed by the state. The small comp plan amendment which we are talking about earlier tonight would only take approximately three months for the process to go through the state and that's based on Florida statutes and that's because we're talking about rezoning to an R-1 which is a density less than 10 units to the acre. R-2 R-3 and the current C-2 would all be large scale comp plan amendments and that's because they allow for densities larger than 10 units to the acre and or properties that are greater than 10 acres have to go large scale. Properties under 10 acres go small scale so those kind of amendments take anywhere from 9 to 15 months... Bea McNeely: Thank you Cathy. Todd Peetz: Do you want me to put this discussion item on the next agenda along with the other one with a little more information as far as my comments and potential recommendations are so you have something more to look at other than my blurting out as I did this meeting? Page 26 of 27 Planning& Zoning Board Meeting Verbatim Transcript February 8, 2006 THIS DOCUMENT WAS PREPARED AT THE EXPRESS DIRECTION OF THE CAPE CANAVERAL CITY ATTORNEY, REFLECTS THE MENTAL IMPRESSIONS, CONCLUSIONS, LITIGATION STRATEGY OR LEGAL THEORIES OF THE CITY ATTORNEY AND WAS PREPARED EXCLUSIVELY FOR THE LITIGATION TRIPPLE J INVESTMENTS LLC V. THE CITY OF CAPE CANAVERAL, WHICH IS CURRENTLY PENDING BEFORE THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE MIDDLE DISTRICT OF FLORIDA, AND THUS IS EXEMPT FROM PUBLIC RECORDS DISCLOSURE PURSUANT TO SECTIONS 119.071(1)(D) AND 768.28(16), FLORIDA STATUTES. Bea McNeely: Well actually the discussion item was residential use in the C-1 zoning and I got off the track because I talked about the commercial use so I guess we'll go back to yes the answer to your questions is yes we need to talk about residential use and you had some good ideas and we can visit that again. Lamar Russell: Where also gonna keep item two? Bea McNeely: Yes we can keep item two because by then we'll know the outcome of the Board of Adjustment meeting. Okay so we'll revisit items two and three. Page 27 of 27